Hmm … we view things on a totally different perspective so this article, particularly this part, was very interesting …

For my part, a relationship, and consequently sex, is something done for purely selfless reasons, else I do not even bother with forming a relationship, at all. It goes without saying that I derive gains from a relationship as well, and pleasure from sex, but those are not my motives in entering in a relationship in the first place.

Unless I am the first to give and offer in the common interest of a relationship, I consider the relationship a failure on my part and that I have let down my partner. Only in the case that I have done my best and I see no appreciation whatsoever for my efforts do I consider the failure to lie on her, instead of me.

Given these, I cannot even begin to accept the logic of sex (something that should be equally pleasant for both persons involved) being used as a currency … if she doesn’t feel like having me beside her, I consider it appalling that she would even think that she would “sell” herself off so cheaply (for a mere favor, for crying out loud !!!) and that I would actually consider “paying” her for doing something that we should be both enjoying for the sake of it and not for the sake of gaining something from one another.

It is cheap and insulting, more to the person willing to “buy” than to the person willing to “sell”, for obvious reasons and a cheap relationship like that is, imho, no relationship at all. It is a constant bargain where both parts try to cheat each other in the balance of things and tip the scales to their side.

Thanks, but no thanks.

I believe that there are many things that people should bear in a relationship and even more things that one should forget and forgive on their significant other … but there are some important things that should be non-negotiable and starting to view your mate as your employer, is one of those few things that I simply cannot accept.

So, this is the answer to the whole concept … those people, imho, do not have even the rudimentary respect for themselves and their partner and are giving into such blatant and cheap blackmail without considering what they are giving up in making sex a negotiable indulgence that should be derived after an actual haggle, instead of real and honest affection among two people.

Have a good night.

Money always solves such problems no matter who you are, so there shouldn’t be much surprise there.

Generally speaking the people (male or female) that focuses *only* on the sex part of human relationships, rarely gain respect for that preference of theirs … not always a good thing this assumption, I agree, but still it is a general truth in modern society …

So, in case that someone doesn’t have the money to “buy” some respect from others, then what do you propose .?.

> I think that prostitution is the ultimate power for women

Yeah right … In the same way of thinking then the labor workers should have had the ultimate power in their hands, but somehow noone happened to notice that yet …

Don’t get this wrong, the basis in every society structure indeed always yields the most power, but due to its own size and diversity, the power scatters with each individual adding to it.

That is why there are centralized types of government and that is why the decentralized original democratic system of Athens is in fact impractical for large populations. Because the number of the people sharing the power is too big for that power to actually be steered among themselves.

> My opinion is the person who wants sex should go see the friendly local prostitute for some safe and consensual sex…

Well, my opinion (for many reasons) is that there are few things in life lower than paying to get laid, so I guess I’ll join the people that disagree with you …

Have a good night.

This however, made her so pissed that a moderator on the forum saw fit to remove those two lines of mine for reasons of flaming (yes, really), and then made her rewrite her response. I don’t know what was in her original response, I never saw it, but I’m told she was very pissed. In her rewrite she was clearly very annoyed that she didn’t get to rail at me, but she would respect the moderator’s request. She pointedly avoided the topic that had pissed her off, namely me calling her out on her privilege.

She was so well-meaning and benevolently patronising, and I was told by the moderator that if I didn’t want people to comment on my posts, then I shouldn’t post them. It’s not that I don’t want people to comment, dammit, it’s that I want them to respect that when it comes to MY LIFE, I may know a teeny bit more about it than they do. But yeah, I was the one doing the flaming. Right.

I do believe it was totally unfair to delete those two lines of my post, I also believe she should have been the one receiving the warning for insinuating I was dumb and a liar. But nope. Classism and ableism are little recognised isms, so though the messageboard has rules against sexism and racism (and rightly so, of course), other isms go under the radar frequently. I didn’t take it up with the site owner – I hadn’t the strength to fight this battle and I knew beforehand that it’s one I couldn’t win. Someone else did play my knight in shining armour (site admin’s phrasing) and received a warning for doing so – I never saw any of that either.

*shrug*

I didn’t consider it a safe space anymore anyway. I had already stopped debating with these people, because I know that even though I once considered them my friends, I could not count on them being sensible. Defending trans and gay rights in two different threads earned me the comment “you seem to have a need to be the messiah of every sub/culture” and “you seem to have an incessant need to argue about everything.” Nevermind that I did so in a space set up specifically to discuss things. They decided I must be clinically insane with delusions of grandeur to do what I do, namely argue that rights and freedom is for everyone. One of them was a former boyfriend, who knows damn well that I have a diagnosis of the psyche – two actually: Asperger’s and depression.

So because of that I had stopped posting in debate topics. I was just sharing and venting about the stuff in my life that isn’t going well. Apparently that wasn’t acceptable either. I suppose it is widely known that if you don’t want useless advice, stating so more than twice just isn’t enough. You must completely refrain from saying anything that people could possibly find it in themselves to advise you about, and if they still advise you on stuff and you don’t want it, it’s because something’s wrong with you. Yep. I suppose I forgot that.

Right, that ended up getting a little ranty again.

I’m so sorry she subjected you to that bullshit.

*hugs*

“I don’t think I could do sex work myself, I’ve never felt the curiosity to try, nor have I ever had the need (thankfully). Not because I think it’s icky – it’s sex and it’s no different than any other sexual relation in that regard – but because I dislike the idea of engaging in sex for someone else’s sake rather than my own. That’s purely my own feelings, though, and I respect and understand that people are different and that others won’t mind this like I do”

I have a video tape of myself from 20+ years ago (omg), when I was 18 where I said almost this very same thing. Almost verbatim – I really need to find that tape again and get it onto my computer….

Anyway, here’s the thing…. I was horny, I wanted the sex. I wanted lots of sex, with all sorts of dudely dudes. But a lot of dudes are idiots (sorry dudes, I don’t mean you), and they all want this “no strings attached” thing where NSA means they will immediately begin to ignore and shun you once they get the nookie. I was just going about my life, being a happy li’l slut, and by the time I was in my late 20s I’d figured out that the whole she-bang was screwed and skewed (by nature, by culture? who knows) and I was just goddamned tired of all the dudes I’d had such a fun time fucking being total pricks afterward…. As in, they act like if you IM them after you fucked that it means you wanna be their girlfriend. And they get all freaked out… you know what I mean? Or you run into them at the local pub and they literally ignore you – lest you expect them to propose marriage or something… And yes – I was hurt by that bullshit, I didn’t want marriage, or a boyfriend, I didn’t even want more sex with the dude most of the time, but I did want some GodDamned respect. And in walks money and solves the whole problem, much to my surprise.

I have a whole theory about it too, because it was such a revelation after that first time I did it – that there was no shame, no doubts about myself, none of those emotions they tell you that you will have… I didn’t feel like a ‘whore’, I didn’t feel used = in fact the way I felt was so totally the OPPOSITE of everything I’d been taught (by tv movies school religion) I spent every day of my life since then studying why, and researching other people who say they’ve felt this way… and I haven’t found a single free-will prostitute who didn’t discover what I did. Not a single one so far. I think that prostitution is the ultimate power for women (and the very reason for patriarchy and this is of course using the generality of “most sex workers are females” but more important is that sex work is illegal because most sex workers are women)– it is sex, which we want, but the money === it is having our sexual partner make a contribution to our lives and our survival === which is not so far away from respect, and it’s not so far away from love, the love that all people should show to all other people of Do No Harm, and leave the other person in better shape than you found them… It is all of those things WITHOUT us needing to sign our entire lives over to someone else and becoming no longer ourselves but a component of them (I mean that is patriarchy, really where women literally belong to men, it’s still that way, seen in the outrage when women don’t take the husbands name)

and of course that Do No Harm bit is key … like you said, if a person is forced into prostitution everything I have just said is of course cancelled out… and also it presupposes that the person is the sort who doesn’t have a problem with ‘casual’ sex in the first place.

Attraction in sex work … not a big deal…I’ve found that most clients will choose a good personality, or a personality they click with over a strict body type or look they prefer. Some of them prefer a certain image, but most don’t… For the worker too, looks aren’t as important as kindness and cleanliness and humor and outlook on life of the client… that’s true for relationships too, yeah so a client a might not be my personal idea of a sex god,,, but there is no ideal sex god really… attraction based on appearance is just asking for trouble, because we age, we get injured, parts of our bodies rebel against us and have to be cut off…

The question of sex in relationships – who owes who what – there are two sorts of situations; the type of “I’m not sexxxing you up unless you take that trash out first you know” – where I think most of do that from time to time (because hey “if you don’t take the trash out first you’ll just fall asleep and won’t do it till tomorrow, meanwhile: ants and I’m much to lazy to do it myself “) … but the other issue is one of people who commit to monogamy and then find themselves sexually imcompatible to their partners. If I ran the world none of us would be expected to mate for life, because peoples sexual appetites wax and wane for many different reasons, and if you sign up to be with a person for an extended period of time, it becomes an issue of whether or not it’s “fair” to deny them sex… It’s not, just as it’s not fair to expect sex… it’s better to end the relationship if that’s the case, imo – Actually a great place to read about that stuff is in Advice columns online – check out the comment sections on a letter that says “I’ve been married 10 years, the mr/mrs doesn’t want sex anymore, but I love her and my family, what do I do?” and you’ll see it’s an issue everyone has an opinion on and nobody has an answer for… My opinion is the person who wants sex should go see the friendly local prostitute for some safe and consensual sex… but haha few people agree with my opinion on that.

Actually the only thing he said worth a second glance is this:

> That is fine for them as long as it is what they really want and they are not trying to live up to the myth of false feminism as real feminism.

True, real, false or whatnot it matters not … what people should be wary about is ending up living for the tag they once chose to wear or the ideals they chose to uphold, instead of using the tags and ideals to help them achieve what they wanted in their lives.

You can see it all around you … people gather around a concept, an idea, a complete ideology or simply their need to belong somewhere … political parties, football team supporters, small neighbor gangs and hundred other things filled with people that joined to support something they believed is right (or simply fun to do) and ended up living for it …

And despite all that, people today strive passionately to be different from one another and believe that they are unique … and what do they usually achieve .?. Being different from what they had been before, but being the same with the new group they opted to follow.

If it wasn’t pathetic, it would have been hilarious.

Btw, in conjunction to this, the other note-worthy thing on that dudes post, is that the said fellow had actually heard of the science of “social engineering” … too bad that he was totally ignorant of what it is all about, else he wouldn’t have ever bothered writing a word … pp

Now, on your account, excluding the formalistic matters about -isms in general on which I refrain from offering any opinion since you are much more knowledgeable and versed in this than me, I have some objections :

> Feminists know that the family unit, as it is perceived and valued in this society, is detrimental to women and therefore we question how it is viewed and valued.

You should keep in mind that this varies, depending on which society we are talking about because …

> men with families are also healthier than those without, and for women it’s the opposite.

… here in my country this particular statistic, for the males at least iirc, is simply the opposite.

Also, here for every one male widower, there are ten female widows and women on average outlive their husbands for about a decade, so, while it is just a statistic, I wouldn’t say that it makes marriage sound like a healthy prospect to me.

> I know plenty of men, who are perfectly happy that they don’t have to provide for the women in their lives.

No objection here !

But do you remember when I once said that feminism was the secret weapon of phallocrats .?. ;-p

It was, and still is, a slightly over the top opinion, I’ll grant you that, but it is a thought that what I see around me has yet to convince me to replace it with something else.

I know that it is annoying, but it is a fact that most of this country’s “female hunters” drink to that change on mentality in the local female population and sing praises for the modern era. Once upon a time, in order to find “liberated” women (however that is defined – in their case they defined it as women not shy of having sex without them giving any promises or creating a relationship) they had to wait for the summer and the foreign tourists. Local women had demands, ergo they were off limits for any promiscuousness.

Today .?.
Hurray for the free sex and the free abortions … everyday is an adventure for them, a new night, a different place and a different “chick” and no obligation about it, no strings attached !!!

It was like a miracle to them !

Not belonging to the group of hunters and being a more old-fashioned monogamous person I can be a bit objective on the matter and so I find the situation quite amusing because, counting things down, in this bargain it is the males (and in particular the most irresponsible of our ilk) that in the end won the most out of the situation, result-wise, in the same time that women falsely think that this (adopting all character flaws a male can have according to our culture ) is what feminism was all about in the first place !

Aaahhh, this country is indeed a paradise for cynical creeps like me.

Have a good night.

I might just go have a longer look.

—-”I’m a mens’ rights blogger that has realized that technology is the key to defeating feminism and their allies. This blog exists because of that realization. “—-

antifeministtech.blogspot.com/ (I left off the http:// on purpose cuz I don’t want him showing up here unless you want him to)

I’m not sure exactly how he thinks technology will defeat feminism, I didn’t read that entry on his blog I guess… but currently he is running some sort of “experiment” about whether or not sex is…. something…. I dunno, he’s trying to lose his virginity in a scientific way or something…

—-”Things with Kristen also went well at least up until a certain point. I suspected before that she would be willing to spread her legs really quickly. I ended up confirming that. No, I didn’t have sex with her. “—-

and thanks for the linkage!